RECCE ROOM

On October 5-6, 2024, this author again attended an Appleseed. Goals were as follows: Shoot a score of 210+ on the AQT - again with an AR-15.  Use the Magpul RLS sling in an entire Appleseed class.  Shoot alongside a friend, and encourage him on.  The shoot is in the books, and a good shoot it was. I fired less than 150 rounds and the entire shoot was less than 250 rounds total (For reasons that will be outlined below, I did not participate in every shooting drill). There was a LOT more instruction than the prior five Appleseeds I have attended.  For only the second time, the kneeling position was demonstrated. Appleseed correctly teaches that the kneeling position is less stable than sitting, and should only be used by those who cannot accomplish the sitting position. One shooter used the kneeling position instead of sitting in the second stage, and he used it to marvelous effect.  Not surprising, again, no certificates were given out to the four individuals ...

Last weekend, I attended another Appleseed clinic. This one was in a different location than my first three. The instructor cadre was also completely different. The Shoot Boss has taken a class with me, and is one of the more friendly gun guys you are likely to meet. Took the class with two friends, neither of whom had been to an Appleseed before.  One of my friends shot a Rifleman score, using my souped-up 10/22. The other showed great improvement.  As expected, I shot the score both times there was an AQT. My second score was "only" a 218 - and the scorer and I agreed there was a double and that would have increased my score to 228 - but we only counted it as one hole, not two.  For the first time at an Appleseed, I heard the Three Strikes of the Match . The presenters made it very entertaining. Not sure why all of this material was not presented at previous events. To be certain, parts were told - but way less than half.  This event was a one-day event, and there ...

Not too long ago, I was having a conversation with an Appleseed Red Hat Instructor. The subject matter of that conversation made me think. I was reminded of that conversation more recently, when I was speaking with a student from one of my recent rifle classes. The Appleseed instructor mentioned that they are the first training class for so many people. The conversation with my student emphasize the fact that this was the student's first training class, as well. Additionally,  The Appleseed instructor with whom I recently spoke had a total of 40 live-fire classes under his belt, 13 of those as an assistant. My most recent class was my 61st as primary instructor. If you read many of my old entries on this blog, you will see that I was critical of Appleseed at the time. Those criticisms still stand, however, they were meant as constructive criticism then, and that still stands today. Appleseed has changed a little bit, as well they should. However, my opinion is that they probably ...

10 years ago, I went to an Appleseed clinic. I wrote much about this - both pros and cons of the program.  But I didn't write nearly as much as some of their folks wrote in retort. Many tried to defend the cons in many ways.  Therefore, I was curious what, if any updates the program had made to its curriculum. Back in the early part of the year, a friend had told me she and her family were thinking about attending an Appleseed and she asked my thoughts.  I told her to try it. I also said I'd go and shoot, as well.  But, I needed a goal above and beyond just being there for a friend.   So, I made my personal goal to be this: I wanted to earn the Rifleman patch with my M16A4 rifle. With a government profile barrel and bulk ammo, my task would not be a guarantee. My technique would have to be true. Gear My rifle is free floated, so I attached the sling swivel to the Midwest Industries free float rail.  This would prevent POI shift. The rifle uses an A...

From a reader: So, in short, what is your take now on Appleseed? Good, Bad, Ugly? Good The Appleseed folks adhere to strict safety rules. They do teach high power shooting. This is a dying art. It's a good start. Bad They don't really teach rack-grade iron-sight shooting at 500 yards, like they claim. The Army Qualification Test is not currently used by the Army, nor has it ever been. People in the Revolutionary War did NOT learn to shoot using a sling. 2-8 was originally concocted for M1 training. It needed to be dropped in 1959 with the adoption of the M14 and 20-round mags.   Ugly You'd be better served to rest the gun and get a known zero. As with any group - they can be a bit high on themselves. They virtually never mint a rifleman of a student who is new to firearms.  As often happens, the program has some contradictory nuances (e.g. - scopes OK for high power shooting, but rests aren't). I've got a lot more on Appleseed. Check out the...

I have seen this a lot on the internet: Appleseed folks, well-intentioned as they might be, erroneously passing along the false statement that Appleseed is a "run what you brung" event. Nothing could be further from the truth. Appleseed teaches marksmanship - particularly as it would be used in sportive competitions like NRA Highpower. They teach "field positions" that increase accuracy. Appleseed does not teach sound training or gunfighting tactics or doctrine. In fact, many of the field positions rely on techniques that are counter-intuitive to orthodox self-defense-with-a-rifle concepts. Back to the MYTH of "run what you brung" ( Myth #2 ) - first, let's cover why this statement is false : At Appleseed, the "AQT" is shot more often than any other training device or scenario. The AQT is an amalgam of US Marine Corps known-distance  (USMC-KD) shooting and NRA Highpower (NRA-HP) shooting with a few rules modifications. Both influential c...

Two years ago, I attended an Appleseed shoot. I learned a lot about what to do, and what not to do. I posted my thoughts - here and on several forums online. The response from the Appleseed crowd, upon witnessing print that did something other than worship their program, was interesting to say the least. At the time, I wrote what I saw as strengths, and weaknesses of the program. I also made predictions, here and on other forums. Sadly, some of those predictions are coming true. In short, recently in IL, many Appleseed instructors were dismissed. They had been teaching in more efficient ways, which the organization's founder and leader, "Fred" (Jack Dailey), did not approve. This almost happened back in March , and I was made aware at that time. Well, "Fred" and the folks from IL came to an agreement, and all seemed well in their world... but as is often the case, there was deep-rooted resentment. In August, "Fred" decided to pull the trigger. In...

So you want to go to Appleseed and get the coveted Rifleman patch? Fine goal. To do so, there are a couple of methods that can give you better than average odds: A) Be an accomplished NRA highpower shooter. B) Prepare properly. Since NRA highpower is a relatively unique discipline, and since not that many shooters ever really compete in it, much less get pretty good at it, I'll assume you found this blog post because you intend to do (B) from above and prepare properly. Disclaimers There are a couple of things you need to know before we begin. First - the AQT is a game. To win the prize, it is best to play the game well. Second - Playing the game well means proper equipment, proper preparation, and proper motivation. If you cannot commit to any of these, you cannot get a patch, plain and simple. PROPER EQUIPMENT There are several things you will need. Some are not mandatory, but strongly encouraged. If you go without too many of the strongly encouraged items, exp...

I've been advised by several instructors in Appleseed that they are in the middle of a meltdown in IL. Fred has banned several instructors. At the heart of it is the "firing" of "The Guy" last fall. Guy and Fred had it out. Guy had been doing a lot of Appleseeds, and Fred kept trying to stick his nose in. Guy kept hearing what needed to be done to improve things, and implemented it. Fred and his gang of Master Instructors kept trying to butt in and force the "traditional" Appleseed instruction. The instructors in IL, some very high ranking, were all (or mostly) from the lineage of "The Guy." In the words of Fred: "If you add clean water to dirty water, you end up with dirty water." Some of Fred's cronies had suggested: "burning Illinois to the ground and starting fresh." They were also involved (many crony-instructors known to be untrustworthy) by way of forwarding communications marked as be...

I am asked all the time: "what would make a good, cheap gun to learn marksmanship with?" Let me answer that question this way: I feel that rifle marksmanship is easiest to learn, and translates well into pistol marksmanship. Also, all the tactical training in the world is useless if, when you pull the trigger, you do not hit your target.Marksmanship is the most fundamental part of shooting as a martial art . Also, for folks looking to get a good rifle setup for Appleseed , this is the way to go . The Rifle: Out of all the possibilities out there, I have selected the Marlin 795 as the training rifle of choice. Naturally, the 795's older brother, the Marlin 60 , is a fine choice as well. There are numerous other makes and models that will suffice, but the 795 was the cream of the crop in several categories: Detachable box mag.  I personally like the tube-feed Marlin 60, but most people want or demand a detachable box mag. Price. At $125 (this price is true a...

Some have said that if I think I could do things better than Appleseed, then I should start my own program. Well, here goes! The purpose: When I teach people how to shoot a rifle, I want them to have fundamental skills in the three major positions, as well as the ability to sight in their own rifle. The student should also be taught how to shoot from a rested position. The equipment: Shooters should bring a repeater rifle, that can hold no fewer than 5 rounds in the magazine. Single-shots are not permitted. Rifles will be separated into two main categories: manual action and semiautomatic. Also permitted will be the use of scopes, slings, bipods, sand bags. Scopes or spotting scopes are recommended so that the shooter can more easily observe hits. Ammo requirements will vary, and will be detailed later as the course framework is solidified. The courses of fire: There will be three stages of course of fire: 1) Sighting in. This stage will use 1" squares at 25 yar...

From this thread , MCKNBRD gives several bad suggestions. He starts out by saying: " It amazes me how many experienced high-power shooters are humbled by the lowly AQT" Fact is,  High Power is where Fred's AQT started from. Also, it is well known that when actual HP shooters attend, they often shoot better than the instructors, despite occasionally using slightly different techniques. He continues with inaccuracy: "We highly discourage their [bipods'] use, as the loop sling is actually more stable in prone..." Fact is, bipods are much more stable.  Every Appleseeder I've talked to picks up 20 points or more on their AQT's when using a bipod. He adds to the lunacy: "Scopes are allowed, but they tend to be a hindrance to novice shooters..." Fact is, most shooters who earn the Rifleman patch do so with a scope. Sounds opposite of what he's saying, doesn't it? He gets ridiculous : "When you sling up, if...

Pdb has made several blog posts about Appleseed. He has, in his own way, made some brilliant observations. Two posts, in particular, got me to thinking. So I thought I'd jot it down here, and make a record of it. Link 1 Link 2 Firearms Training BS Detection Checklist Link 1 is about detecting BS is firearms training. Much of it would also be a good checklist for martial arts training. For the sake of this exercise, a "YES" means that AS does demonstrate some BS. A "NO" will mean that there is no BS detected. Here is what pdb asks: Are They Selling Something Other Than Training?   Be suspicious of sales pitches delivered during training for items conveniently sold in their ‘Pro shop’. Not all pitches are for tangible goods; are they selling you on training, or a dogma or lifestyle? For AS:   NO Although many instructors sell slings, and RWVA merchandise, there was no focus on this. Perhaps there have been at some AS events, but I have yet...

Not all Appleseed instructors are created equal. It is a volunteer organization, and this can spawn some nitwits who will teach you all wrong, and they will leave you thinking they know better. Instructor "Mudcat" at my first Appleseed is an example of just that sort of thing. For the sake of documentation, here are the errors he passed on as being correct methodology. Sling too tight Mudcat advised myself and others to tighten slings - to the point of hands turning purple. He stated that we should loosen them between firing times, so as not to cause permanent damage. The correct method, is just taut. A sling, properly adjusted, can be worn all day with no ill effects. Over-tightening not only poses circulatory issues, but causes the shooter to have to muscle shots on target. This defeats NPOA and makes shooting accurately more difficult. Over-tightening also shifts the rifle's Point Of Impact (POI). On traditional wood-stock rifles, the effect is less pronoun...

"The ability to learn how to actually Think.  Separate facts from opinion.  Analyze all facts .  Arrive at a conclusion.  And then be ready to adjust that conclusion if new facts are learned.    There is a large difference between reaching a well thought out conclusion, and reacting.  A well thought out conclusion takes time.  Reaction does not.  One of the curses of the internet, the very net we must work through here, is the reactions , as opposed to conclusions , that all of us have a tendency to reach.    Ironic, that unlike spoken word, the internet has safeguards against this very activity, and yet reactionary statements happen much more here.  The safeguard is the "enter" button.  When we write something here, we all must press "enter" for others to ever know we wrote it.  We have the chance, no, the opportunity , to go back and digest what we have written, to be sure it was thought out, that a c...

Many Appleseed attendees use an AR15 rifle for the course, or at least part of it.  While the AR15 is the quintessential rifle for this kind of shooting, the shooter must still be aware of some things to maximize their effectiveness. Tight sling In the 1960's, the Army discontinued teaching sling use. A big factor in this was the adoption of the M16 rifle. When the sling is too tight, it can cant the barrel of the AR15. The Marines kept with the sling training, and soon realized that there is a point where the sling can be too tight. Now they teach careful use of the sling for Known Distance (KD) shooting. Many Appleseed instructors keep with the motto that there's no such thing as a "too-tight sling!" We know that is completely false. Only time a really tight sling should be used is on a free-floated barrel with a shooting jacket and glove.  Appleseed preaches the same thing on the L1A1 - which is just as bad. The sling swivel is attached directly to the...

A boy shoots "Rifleman" and they do not give him a patch . I don't care if he did shoot off sandbags - have a special youth "sandbag friendly" Rifleman patch for the youngster.

A year ago this week (September 4 & 5, 2009), I attended an Appleseed Shoot. I enjoyed it, and learned a lot. I also saw some things that rubbed me and others the wrong way. I went back in May 22 & 23 this year. Again I enjoyed it. I learned actually a lot more (though it was from an instructor's point of view more than a student's). Again, I observed some things Appleseed does that should be rectified. And this time through a more refined and understanding point of view. Like any other program created by man, it has its benefits, and it is not perfect. I am never afraid to go "on the record" about something, and Appleseed is no different. As with any program, it is not for everybody - even though they don't always see it that way. Like so many other things, this is a "good ol' boy's club" and they act accordingly - be aware of this, in case you dislike that type of organization. Conversely, for those who are looking for that type o...