Learning to Shoot

When presented with evidence contrary to a previously held notion, a reasonable person accepts the facts as they are and moves on from there. One of the weakest excuses to avoid accepting these facts is "well, I'm just old school." Someone thusly claiming to be "old school" is essentially saying, "you're right, but I'm going to continue to be of the opinion that this isn't fact yet, despite this evidence."

There was a spirited online debate about iron sights vs optics for fundamental marksmanship training. 

Old School -
The optimum scenario would be a 25 yard zero of the iron sights(AR) then sighting in your optics AFTER zero. Optics are a crutch. They run out of batteries and can be broken very easily. Proficiency with iron sights is the basis of BRM
(Editor's note: BRM is Basic Rifle Marksmanship - from the US Army)

The Rifleman -
I'm torn. I've competed with irons at 600.  Held my own. 
However, we also have the technology.  Why not use it? Even the USMC now allows the ACOG for quals. One either has the fundamentals or not.
Optics help you see better, not shoot better.

Old School -
Optics break, fail and batteries die. Then, if your have no buis, you’re carrying a club. If you ONLY use an optic, you are then a 1 trick pony. Proficiency with Iron sights FIRST, then you can use optics.
I have optics on my ARs, but I also have irons. I zero the irons, then I zero the optic. I see folks TOTALLY relying on their optics, without any BUIS. That’s a very good way to become combat ineffective if the optic fails for any reason. Think about you falling on patrol and rolling down a hill, ass over tea kettle. Your weapon flying around, hitting rocks, trees, etc. The ACOG gets broken to the point it is useless. You can take it off, chuck it, and drive on if you have Irons. If you don’t, now your primary weapon is useless and you have to go to your secondary weapon.?You have just cut your effectiveness to about 25% and cost your unit in a firefight. This is just my observation.

2nd Rifleman -
I don’t believe Optics are a crutch I think of them as just another tool.
I do believe in irons and will practice with either. Optics can malfunction break etc but optics have come very far these days and what I’ve learned recently is if you spend good money on a good optic and I mean a good optic you won’t be disappointed.
battery life of some are 5 years or more, and some are even able to be knocked around fairly hard and even take damage from other projectiles and still function and hold zero. With that said Even back up irons and flip ups can fail  and break off. You're right, Sh*t happens.

3rd Rifleman -
When I first shot an AR it was with irons. It was not a good shoot day. I felt incapable with an AR at that point. Then I shot one with an optic and it was a world of difference. Then I started taking classes from The Rifleman and listened to him and learned from him all while using an optic. Now, my confidence level with my AR  is high and I plan on going back through all the training classes and using my irons. Optics are only a crutch if you allow them to be. Their a great tool to have same as irons. I am one to say if needed learn with optic get comfortable with your gun and your confidence up then move to irons.

Old School -
Rifleman 3, whoever taught you to shoot with irons was obviously not teaching you correctly. Give me an hour and I could have you zeroed and good to 300 yards.
If you can shoot with an optic, you can shoot with irons, the basics are the basics.

The Rifleman -
My point, exactly. 

Old School -
I wasn't try to be better than anyone, just saying that my skill set is rooted in shooting, especially combat shooting. If I hurt anyone's feelings or stepped on toes then PM me and we can talk about it. If y'all are happy with practicing the wrong way then continue what you are doing and pay no attention to my posts. If you truly want to learn the correct way, then I will be glad to help.


Folks,
You can't change a gamma, no matter what.
And you can't change the mind of someone who refuses to accept facts.  Take liberals, for example. 

But, as evidence of teaching someone on optics, then on irons, let's take Mrs. Rifleman, for example.  In April,  2016, she earned her Expert Rifleman rating from Patriot Training.

Later, she was taken to a range and shot the scale 300 m targets from twice as far away - meaning they were, in effect, 600 m scaled:

Then, she shot for the first time ever with a red dot:

And then, she shot for the first time ever using irons:

Just for good measure, we took her out to over 600 yards some time later:

Maybe the Army and Marines are right - maybe a person can learn to shoot using optics, and then pick up irons later.